Man, that must have been a trip. Someone, somewhere, must have filmed this talk. I know video cameras were much less prevalent in the '70s, but some people had them. This would make an awesome YouTube video!
Olin Moyles Ghost
JoinedPosts by Olin Moyles Ghost
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Brain cells in your heart...Remember that DC with them on stage??....
by oompa inback in the 70's wt had this thingy going on where they thought the figurative heart may indeed be the literal heart....like it had cells in it that affected your thinking....esp on things of emotion...(i swear i am not makin this sheeite up)...i went to a district convention back then that had two six foot, thin paper boxes on stage, with lights inside.....on the outside of each box was a painting of a brain and a heart.......and when the person offstage was talking.....one of the boxes would light up.......like sometimes it was the brain talking.......sometimes it was the heart talking............but most of the time since i was a teen and the chicks were hot......my dick did all the talkin.............oompa.
sorry got off topic at the end....but anyone remember that dc or material?.
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Humility
by Olin Moyles Ghost inwhen discussing doubts/concerns/disagreements about wt doctrines/practices with active jws, have any of you ever been accused of not being humble enough?
this seems to be a common jw reaction to anyone who disagrees/questions the wt society.
sometimes it is expressed as do you think you know more than the fds?
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Olin Moyles Ghost
Thanks for the comments. I appreciate the point about the WT/JW practice of criticizing the teachings and leaders of other religions. If I recall correctly, there is a sidebar in the "Revelation Climax" book that has a partial list of Catholic Popes with quotes regarding some of the bad things they did. Now, that's all well and good, but if someone put together a similar list of bad acts by Russell, Rutherford, and others, such material would be considered "apostate" and a good JW would avoid it. Double standard much?
I have a related side question (and may be hijacking my own thread): where does the idea of "wait on Jehovah" come from? Is that concept (as taught by the WTS) in the Bible? Is that phrase in the Bible? I've heard this phrase quite a bit, and it seems to be an effective thought-stopping device for lots of JWs. I'm just curious about its origin.
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Humility
by Olin Moyles Ghost inwhen discussing doubts/concerns/disagreements about wt doctrines/practices with active jws, have any of you ever been accused of not being humble enough?
this seems to be a common jw reaction to anyone who disagrees/questions the wt society.
sometimes it is expressed as do you think you know more than the fds?
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Olin Moyles Ghost
When discussing doubts/concerns/disagreements about WT doctrines/practices with active JWs, have any of you ever been accused of not being humble enough? This seems to be a common JW reaction to anyone who disagrees/questions the WT society. Sometimes it is expressed as “do you think you know more than the FDS?” Other times it is a more general exhortation to be humble, “teachable,” and not “run ahead of the organization.”
I have done some thinking on this matter, because it just doesn’t sit right with me. In particular, I find it a bit odd that a JW—someone who is 100% convinced that he is right about the big questions in life—accuses me of not being humble when I question whether his religious leaders really have all the answers. Isn’t the reverse true? Am I not being more humble by admitting that I don’t know all the answers?
Of course, when I point this out, the JW replies that he is not the one who has all the answers—rather he’s humbly following the FDS which does have all the answers. I think it is important to point out that this is a distinction without a difference. The fact is that the JW is refusing to consider that his leaders (the leaders that he chose to align himself with) could be anything other than God's representatives on earth. Thus, he is refusing to consider the possibility that his choice to follow these leaders could be wrong. Is this not the height of pride and arrogance? Is it not the opposite of humility?
Further, if you follow this JW “logic,” would the JWs deem me sufficiently humble if I followed the teachings of the Episcopal Church, or the Republican Party, or Richard Dawkins? (I doubt it.)
I recognize that I’m “preaching to the converted” here, but doesn’t it take a great deal of humility to scrutinize your longest-held beliefs with an open mind and honest heart? And doesn’t it take a tremendous amount of humility to admit that you’ve been wrong about some very important things for your entire life?
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spirit realm...when pigs fly...off a cliff..i so want to be smacked by a demon.....
by oompa inya.....back in the day...demonz were everywhere and no big deal....some were smart and some stupid...see:.
(luke 11:14) 14 later he was expelling a dumb demon.
it was like ..."oh, he has a demon in him......ya...got that...demon all the way...............gee you hoser, i let him marry my sister............no prob....she is a demon too...".
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Olin Moyles Ghost
Isn't it strange that demons, angels, talking animals, etc., are all over the Bible--but are nowhere to be found today? Isn't it convenient that the lack of angel/demon/supernatural activity has dissipated at exactly the same time as the advent of video and flash photography! Funny how that works, isn't it?
In all seriousness, to the extent any of these stories about demons contain any truth, these "demonized" people were likely mentally ill. Fortunately, medicine and science have produced ways to treat these individuals--at least to some extent.
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Why did you leave and did you still hold on to some beliefs for a while?
by happpyexjw inwhen you left the wts did you leave over something specific?
did you, or do you, still believe in some of the jw ideas?.
in my own case i left over a family issue i have mentioned elsewhere.
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Olin Moyles Ghost
A large portion of core JW "beliefs" consists of things that they don't believe (hell, trinity, immortal soul, purgatory, etc.). Thus, it is pretty easy for ex-JWs to continue not to believe these things that they have not believed their whole lives.
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Special Post: 1 year anniversary on JWN - My intro finally posted
by Awakened at Gilead ini came on jwd a year ago tomorrow, having realized that jws were not the truth, quite painfully, on march 29, 2008. i was here within a week, and within 2 months i was officially dad by my congregation.. ever since joining, i have never actually wrote down a comprehensive look at why i left the organization.
what doubts caused me to leave?
why did a gilead grad leave what i once considered so precious?.
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Olin Moyles Ghost
Fantastic story, AAG--you're a talented writer.
Your account of the assembly part about the "life saving preaching work" resonates with me. I never could reconcile these two teachings: (1) the preaching work is life-saving; and (2) the end is right around the corner. When you put these two teachings together, it looks like the 2-billion-plus Arabs and Chinese are just ____ out of luck!
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How could any of us here ever actually believe it again????
by oompa ini have two df'd friends...one gay....and they are both going back to meetings to be reinstated.
one has a serious drinking problem and he feels the jw life with friends and family again will help him with the drinking (i would drink even more!
)....he has some doubts, but believes a lot of it.. the gay friend you would think is full of holy spirit!....i thought from prior discussions she thought it was all bs....but nope, he has just always felt he was an evil sinner and wants a better relationship with god and to be with family....proven it to their self that it is full of lies?
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Olin Moyles Ghost
A distinction should be made between (1) those who are DF'd for "wrongdoing" and (2) those who disagree with doctrines and recognize that the GB/FDS is not what they claim to be.
As other commenters have pointed out, there are LOTS of DF'd Witnesses who still believe that it's "the Truth" and for whatever reason they have not taken the steps to get reinstated. I truly pity these poor souls. Sounds like the worst of both worlds to me.
For this reason, I think it is worthwhile to take opportunities to share the truth about The Truth to DF'd folks when possible. Don't assume that DF'd witnesses are "apostates" like you. In fact, some of them may be more firm in their WT faith than most JWs--rejection does funny things to people.
But I seriously doubt that many JWs who actually study the WT's doctrines and figure out that they are bogus ever go back. Sure, some may go back to fake it for their family/friends, but I wager that almost 0% actually go back to believing the stuff. I'm sure it has happened, but it has to be rare.
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Can anyone tell me what the G20 protesters are protesting about???
by Confucious ini'm clueless.. .
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Olin Moyles Ghost
No. Most of the protesters probably can't either. Reminds me of the protests in Seattle about 10 years ago. Some clap-trap about "globalization."
The posters who chalked it up to youthful angst are probably right on the money. I think these kids see videos/pictures of their parents' generation protesting for things like civil rights and they want in on some of that action.
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WILL THERE EVER BE A JW REVOLUTION?
by african GB Member inis there a possibility for jw's turning against the gb, perhaps by boycotting the "meetings" and fs?.
in my opinion, i think we could be heading for something to that "effect"..... i have heard several "brothers" in my cong talking about the "need" to adapt to the ever changing world..... .
are they gonna go mainstream and avoid a possible revolt?.
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Olin Moyles Ghost
Nope.
Disfellowshippig, shunning, and a cultivated fear of the outside world keeps them in it. In the deep recesses of their minds, lots of Witnesses know that there's something wrong (several have admitted this to me)...but they stick with JW-ism because the risk is too great. They don't want to lose their families, friends, (for some) business relationships, etc. In other words, staying in the Watchtower is the course of least resistance.
And for some of these folks, I think staying in the Watchtower is a rational decision--if they can mentally handle the cognitive dissonance. If you wonder who these people are, look around your congregation. Think about the born-in brothers who are not "reaching out." The brothers and sisters who buy new houses, accept promotions, pursue higher education for themselves and/or their children. Also, think about the married sisters who work full-time even though they could get by without the money.
Some of these people are sticking with the Watchtower because it's the course of least resistance. Think about it. If they really believed that these are critical times, and the end is right around the corner, would they be going to college? Would they be working full-time? NO, they would be engaging in the full-time ministry! The fact that so many JWs are content to live a "normal" life (2 meetings a week plus Saturday a.m. door-knocking) shows a latent skepticism toward the counsel of the FDS.
But they stick with it...because leaving is not worth the trouble.
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Is it true? The WTS will not disfellowship anymore?
by heyfea ini'm sorry if i missed a discussion regarding this subject.. .
my mother-in-law is a jw (not a fanatic).
she goes to the meetings every now and then; she occasionally goes out preaching.
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Olin Moyles Ghost
Not true. JWs still DF people. A few years back, they changed the announcement to "XYZ is no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses." But this was not a substantive change (more of a "lipstick on a pig" sort of thing). There has been no change in JW disfellowshipping policy.